TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

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Kirisame Marisa
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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 08:42

Master of Clan X wrote:
Kirisame Marisa wrote: shygrassspiny TVVAT Sunk by Fort Defender 14/6/2013 3:11 3 Chewbacca 0
He sunk the attacker. So no salvage kit or salvage AP was used. Why'd he stop defending? He wasn't attacking either =


FEEEEEDDDINNGGGG....

If you look through the log again, you will see that that particular attacker never attacked again. -.-
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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 08:50

Kirisame Marisa wrote:Also, I'm pretty sure Massia and Chewbacca met attackers during the use of these tokens.
Master of Clan X wrote: I'm pretty sure you're as blind as you are dumb. The logs have already been posted.
I was merely attempting to direct you to the log entries where said defenders had defence encounters. I suppose I should have said "as can be clearly seen from the logs" then. My apologies.
Master of Clan X wrote:
Kirisame Marisa wrote:
Sneaky Miggy wrote: these 17 players, almost 2/3 their clan, are all level 103 or above. I found them in the top 100 players and there are only 2 players in the top 100 not in a clan, so successful defending... not too likely a story.
I don't recall seeing all 17 attackers from TVVAT attacking either. Is that a contradiction too?
Why don't you ask the person you quoted instead dumbass.
Fair enough. Sorry abut that. I merely wanted to point out that 5 out of 17 (29%) out-of range attackers actually attacked, while 3 out of 13 (23%) of the in-range attackers attacked, out of which 2 were deterred from attacking again. The ratio of out-of-range attackers to in-range attackers attacking is more than close enough to 1:1.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Ray Reyes » 17 Jun 2013, 09:42

finally a thread ENJOYABLE to read in SO DB....

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 17 Jun 2013, 10:13

Kirisame Marisa wrote: If you look through the log again, you will see that that particular attacker never attacked again. -.-
Kirisame Marisa wrote:That would be 13 members reachable by our defenders, more than enough to keep us busy.
Opps! Contradicted yourself there again.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 17 Jun 2013, 10:15

Kirisame Marisa wrote:The ratio of out-of-range attackers to in-range attackers attacking is more than close enough to 1:1.
So rezzing vs TWAT is a much worse proposition than rezzing vs Clan X (which has more "in-range" attackers) but Denure chose to do so repeatedly.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 12:32

Master of Clan X wrote:
Kirisame Marisa wrote: If you look through the log again, you will see that that particular attacker never attacked again. -.-
Kirisame Marisa wrote:That would be 13 members reachable by our defenders, more than enough to keep us busy.
Opps! Contradicted yourself there again.
He managed to stop 2 attackers from attacking ever again. How is that not successful and busy defending? Also, you seem to be ignoring poor R3X.
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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 12:34

Master of Clan X wrote:
Kirisame Marisa wrote:The ratio of out-of-range attackers to in-range attackers attacking is more than close enough to 1:1.
So rezzing vs TWAT is a much worse proposition than rezzing vs Clan X (which has more "in-range" attackers) but Denure chose to do so repeatedly.
Could that be somehow related to the fact that Clan X wasn't up when he was available to rez the fort? After all, it's a little hard to rez against a fort that isn't up.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Sneaky Miggy » 17 Jun 2013, 17:31

Marina Tyler wrote:As requested:

Name Attacking Clan Status Time Lane Defender HP
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 R3X -72,254
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 1 -NONE- -114,120
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 -NONE- -413,831
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 R3X -152,804
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 1 -NONE- -108,885
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 -NONE- -408,460
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 R3X -143,634
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 2 -NONE- -108,768
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:46 3 -NONE- -383,630
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 R3X -146,268
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 1 -NONE- -111,837
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 -NONE- -382,995
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 R3X -138,553
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 1 -NONE- -106,189
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 -NONE- -396,123
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 R3X -151,721
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 -NONE- -414,704
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 R3X -152,876
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 -NONE- -397,294
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:45 3 R3X -142,554
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -379,549
Arkhytirema INA Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -127,602
Arkhytirema INA Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -122,609
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -125,154
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -135,291
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -108,117
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -160,745
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -125,891
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -130,847
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -108,785
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -158,300
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -109,149
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -128,354
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -121,414
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -161,957
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -106,871
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -413,748
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -119,422
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -113,278
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -164,853
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 3 -NONE- -400,466
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -118,849
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -109,178
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 2 -NONE- -161,229
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 3 -NONE- -419,418
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -116,424
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -10,735
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,328
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -111,956
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -137,029
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -122,278
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -69,835
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -126,062
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -129,526
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -108,846
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,988
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -127,707
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -132,985
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -110,565
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,209
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -128,874
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -123,510
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -111,439
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -67,271
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -122,404
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -128,118
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -109,998
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -69,628
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -135,689
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -119,223
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -110,433
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -69,977
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -110,813
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -135,371
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -123,145
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -68,498
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -114,651
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -130,769
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -123,619
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 3 -NONE- -68,877
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -111,684
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -119,126
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -134,234
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 3 -NONE- -72,217
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 1 -NONE- -111,289
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 1 -NONE- -126,262
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 2 -NONE- -131,115
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 3 -NONE- -70,217
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -99,451
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -70,482
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -99,239
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -123,719
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -109,474
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 2 -NONE- -395,988
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -66,951
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -125,280
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -110,347
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 2 -NONE- -417,698
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -101,586
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -68,811
Evil DEvil TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -112,471
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -125,101
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -114,300
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -425,258
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 3 -NONE- -68,942
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -107,284
Evil DEvil TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -115,497
shygrassspiny TVVAT Sunk by Fort Defender 14/6/2013 3:11 3 Chewbacca 0
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -111,466
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 2 -NONE- -393,481
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 3 -NONE- -66,589
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 R3X -108,242
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -112,276
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 3 -NONE- -419,581
Evil DEvil TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 2 -NONE- -117,227
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 3 -NONE- -133,416
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 R3X -127,343
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:12 1 -NONE- -123,385
nad0886 Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:12 2 Chewbacca -60,562
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:12 1 -NONE- -154,647
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:12 1 -NONE- -150,456
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:11 1 -NONE- -14,522
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:11 3 -NONE- -14,036
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:11 1 -NONE- -154,186
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:11 1 -NONE- -14,330
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:11 1 -NONE- -13,880
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:10 2 -NONE- -14,241
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:10 1 -NONE- -14,808
Rainbow King Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:10 1 R3X -118,904
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:10 2 -NONE- -14,801
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:10 1 -NONE- -14,218
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -156,087
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 2 -NONE- -14,113
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -153,687
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -148,763
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -14,790
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -151,335
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:09 1 -NONE- -14,217
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:08 3 -NONE- -14,766
Dancrist Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:08 3 -NONE- -14,003
Rainbow King Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:07 3 R3X -120,782
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:07 1 -NONE- -151,598
Rainbow King Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:07 3 R3X -119,624
Rainbow King Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:06 3 R3X -122,020
Aphelion Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:06 1 MASSIA -105,563
Rainbow King Clan X Fort Success 14/6/2013 2:06 2 R3X -117,735
This proves my original point... that if sunk by defender, that attacker stops attacking. the one attacker that was sunk stopped attacking after that. so the use of multiple tokens from there on to train your defenders is mute. The only other defenders, R3X and massia, stopped defending until R3X started again at the end, and was heavily leaking. Now i know you said there are better ways to use AP then to attack a clan you cant beat... but im pretty sure its better exp then defending someone you cant beat.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 18:34

Sneaky Miggy wrote:The only other defenders, R3X and massia, stopped defending
My main objection to this is that it implies that R3X and Massia, (as well as Chewbacca) actually stopped defending against a level range. They most likely didn't, and probably didn't meet many attackers because they simply didn't attack as much, or they ran out of salvage kits, both of which are conditions a CM simply cannot do anything about. As such, "had no further defense encounters" is probably more appropriate than "stopped defending".
Sneaky Miggy wrote: This proves my original point... that if sunk by defender, that attacker stops attacking. the one attacker that was sunk stopped attacking after that. so the use of multiple tokens from there on to train your defenders is mute.
However, as can be seen from the logs, attackers that met their range were clearly active. So long as the probability of them attacking was not 0, there was still the chance that our defenders could encounter attackers, perhaps the very same ones who were deterred from the start, dipping a toe in to see if their defender was still there, or if their new build was effective against them. Or they could be stragglers late for a rez, eager to spend their aps attacking. So long as there can be conceivable gain to be had from rezzing, it is rational for a CM to use the free, I emphasise, free, tokens for the gain of his clan.

Also, as an aside, the word "moot" I used in an earlier post is actually a proper English word, and it simply means "debatable".
Sneaky Miggy wrote:Now i know you said there are better ways to use AP then to attack a clan you cant beat... but im pretty sure its better exp then defending someone you cant beat.
Actually, defending against someone one can't beat is a pretty good idea compared to attacking a clan one can't beat, because, in the context of a clan war, 0 aps are spent doing the former, while at least 10 is spent on the latter, making it infinitely more ap efficient for clan war.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 17 Jun 2013, 18:35

Also, this may be a little odd to ask 7 pages into the topic, but what was TVVAT2 being accused of and disbanded for again?

Edit: 100th post get

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Abe Lincoln » 17 Jun 2013, 20:45

Kirisame Marisa wrote:Also, this may be a little odd to ask 7 pages into the topic, but what was TVVAT2 being accused of and disbanded for again?

Edit: 100th post get
Hmm, it appears you really ARE as daft as you seemed.

You directly QUOTED Rainbow King when he told you TWAT2 was disbanded because it was feeding kills to its mother clan, TWAT.

Because of the fact that TYLER took action on you, it means the verdict was guilty, by the procedure I provided earlier, which you claimed was against proper procedure. I'm confused how following the procedure they are supposed to follow is violating the procedure they are supposed to follow?

Then, upon hearing that the verdict was that you are guilty, you decided to throw out circumstantial hypotheses which could explain how any "average" clan could do your actions and not be breaking rules, while ignoring the circumstances that your specific clan acted on.

Nobody would yell at you for training your defenders by going into a war and not attacking. However, going to war with a clan that:
  1. shares your name
  2. is the clan with the least number of players who could attack your defenders of all clans
  3. is the clan who would take you out in the least number of waves of all clans
  4. is least likely to run out of APs of all clans
is certainly likely to cause anyone reading this assume you are trolling if your argument claims you were "defender training" and "playing a war of attrition."

Frankly, I'm insulted to be part of the same community as you, because your actions make a mockery of the logic you claim to so proudly defend. I will give you credit, however, for making a brilliant distraction of the real problem, which is that TWAT goes without punishment, and Arma remains left without being investigated as well. You're not the only clan to sit and feed TWAT sinks, exp, and fort attacks for this event, and so I'm sad that only your clan has faced with punishment. That isn't fair to the members of TWAT2 who didn't know what was going on. To punish some and not others for the same crime is regrettable.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 00:54

Abe Lincoln wrote: I will give you credit, however, for making a brilliant distraction of the real problem, which is that TWAT goes without punishment, and Arma remains left without being investigated as well.
+1. Tyler needs to suspend the TWAT2 CM, take BACK the fort sinks from TWAT and investigate Arma.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 00:59

Kirisame Marisa wrote: He managed to stop 2 attackers from attacking ever again. How is that not successful and busy defending? Also, you seem to be ignoring poor R3X.
He didn't stop Nad from attacking ever again! Your fort got sunk moron. And R3X seemed to only find his balls at the last token after 2-3 tokens of feeding.

Kirisame Marisa wrote:From experience,... and top clans do not usually accept imbeciles into their ranks
Which "top clan" accepted an imbecile like you who thinks your TWAT2 defenders were doing a good job? From the logs R3X was ONLINE but decided to run away at full speed instead of trying to mount any kind of real defense.

Kirisame Marisa wrote: Could that be somehow related to the fact that Clan X wasn't up when he was available to rez the fort? After all, it's a little hard to rez against a fort that isn't up.
Why don't you ask him to come here and post what he was suddenly busy with that he couldn't rez after just warring with Clan X? Butt fucking you I suppose.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 01:09

Kirisame Marisa wrote:As for why we had no tokens left, it may not have crossed your mind that, much as I hate to admit our failures in war, we miscalculated the amount of APs the opposing side has, and as such, lost the war of attrition.
Kirisame Marisa wrote: I highly doubt that TVVAT would allow slackers to remain in their ranks. Did you consider the fact that high levels have bigger aps tanks, and are less likely to run out of aps?
^ Lying cheater found.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 01:16

Kirisame Marisa wrote: or they ran out of salvage kits, both of which are conditions a CM simply cannot do anything about.
If they ran out of salvage kits to defend then why would Denure rez the fort to conduct "defender training"?

BAZINGA!

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