TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

[Abe Lincoln]

I'm surprised that a "Master" of Clan X is unfamiliar with common warfare techniques.

I'm not surprised a stupid multi is unfamiliar with the concept of ZERO. 0 attacks were made and you used ALL your tokens. How is it a war of attrition when you have NO tokens left.

Ad hominems aside, perhaps you are unaware that it costs APs to attack a fort. As a depletable resource, once the opposing side runs out of APs, the war is effectively won. As for why we had no tokens left, it may not have crossed your mind that, much as I hate to admit our failures in war, we miscalculated the amount of APs the opposing side has, and as such, lost the war of attrition. Implying that we were intending to feed TVVAT is an uncharitable assumption on your part, one that rubs salt into our wounds even as we mourn our losses.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're relying on an argument that paraphrased, says, "We were sunk for 5 minutes waiting to go back up and try dealing another 200k damage to a 5M HP clan, and in that 5 minutes of preparation, forgot to check if we had any APs left."

You understand that this sounds like the largest load of bullshit I've read in a while? Especially when everyone knows you will not force the #1 clan to "run out" of APs, as they are not as depletable as your story implies. This strategy would only work on almost any other clan than the one you spend 80% of your tokens on.

[Kirisame Marisa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're relying on an argument that paraphrased, says, "We were sunk for 5 minutes waiting to go back up and try dealing another 200k damage to a 5M HP clan, and in that 5 minutes of preparation, forgot to check if we had any APs left."

You understand that this sounds like the largest load of bullshit I've read in a while? Especially when everyone knows you will not force the #1 clan to "run out" of APs, as they are not as depletable as your story implies. This strategy would only work on almost any other clan than the one you spend 80% of your tokens on.

I have some good news for you, Abe. If you reread your post, you will have read THE largest load of bullshit you've ever read in your life! In no part of my argument did I mention that we had no APs left. Quite the contrary actually. After all, in a war of attrition, is it not rational to strike only when the enemy has depleted his APs? And is it not rational to save one's aps for other purposes when one sees that they will get sunk? Unfortunately, you take your limited experience of warring and extend it to common sense, as anyone who has been in a decent clan would attest to the fact that once does indeed run out of aps when warring against lower ranked clans.

[Abe Lincoln]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're relying on an argument that paraphrased, says, "We were sunk for 5 minutes waiting to go back up and try dealing another 200k damage to a 5M HP clan, and in that 5 minutes of preparation, forgot to check if we had any APs left."

You understand that this sounds like the largest load of bullshit I've read in a while? Especially when everyone knows you will not force the #1 clan to "run out" of APs, as they are not as depletable as your story implies. This strategy would only work on almost any other clan than the one you spend 80% of your tokens on.

I have some good news for you, Abe. If you reread your post, you will have read THE largest load of bullshit you've ever read in your life! In no part of my argument did I mention that we had no APs left. Quite the contrary actually. After all, in a war of attrition, is it not rational to strike only when the enemy has depleted his APs? And is it not rational to save one's aps for other purposes when one sees that they will get sunk? Unfortunately, you take your limited experience of warring and extend it to common sense, as anyone who has been in a decent clan would attest to the fact that once does indeed run out of aps when warring against lower ranked clans.

I stand corrected. This was. Thanks for the enlightenment you have provided.

[Kirisame Marisa]

It's all good. No worries. :)

[hon]

U can use all the smart lawyer word u want. Even little kid know u r doing wrong thing.

[Sneaky Miggy]

Ok. so let me see if I got this right, correct me if I am wrong.

1.)You rezzed 4 times on a clan that has ocho players, and expected them to run out of AP? 100 Ap (5 ocho) is 1 mil damage minimum for most players in that clan. so if you have 5 mil hp, 25 ocho is enough for 1 player to sink your fort alone.

2.) You didn't attack the fort because they were still attacking you and you could not win. This i can understand, save the AP for something useful... With 3-4 active non ocho players, your levels could not possibly be high enough to encounter attackers as defenders at a fixed rate. and if you were winning as defenders, ocho players would stop attacking and save their hard paid for AP. So the def exp would decrease with each token, as the attackers already know if they can pass you or not.

3.) If you were not attacking because you could not win, why on earth would you make 4 attempts in the same hour? Common sense tells you that the longer you wait the more people leave CW to go do other things. No one likes to FW.

[Master of Clan X]

And as long as better EXP can be gained from rezzing against a top clan as opposed to rezzing against, say, Clan X, any perceived hypocrisy on my part can only be due to your failure to engage my argument properly.

Multiple attacks on Clan X vs. ZERO attacks on TWAT. Which one gives better EXP?

You didn't get better EXP = your argument invalid = you're a total fucking liar.

[Master of Clan X]

Ad hominems aside,

No ad hominem. You are in fact a hypocrite and a stupid multi.

As for why we had no tokens left, it may not have crossed your mind that, much as I hate to admit our failures in war, we miscalculated the amount of APs the opposing side has, and as such, lost the war of attrition.

1) If you WERE trying for a war of attrition you would have made AT LEAST 1 attack with your last token.

2) You spent 1 token on a ranked #7 clan. If you wanted to depleted another clan's APs to make them an easy target wouldn't it have been better to spend ALL your tokens against that clan instead?

3) You've been doing this "war of attrition" vs TWAT for DAYS and you expect us to believe you miscalculated their APs EVERYTIME?

Liar pants on fire.

[Kirisame Marisa]

U can use all the smart lawyer word u want. Even little kid know u r doing wrong thing.

[Kirisame Marisa]

Ad hominems aside,

No ad hominem. You are in fact a hypocrite and a stupid multi.

Given your track record, I really shouldn't have expected you to understand what an ad hominem is, so I should have defined the term when I used it. I apologise for that oversight Even IF I was a hypocrite, stupid, and a multi (see also: burden of proof), it should be irrelevant to the argument. I do sympathise with you though. After all, one does need to draw upon fallacies when one runs out of intellectual ammo.

1) If you WERE trying for a war of attrition you would have made AT LEAST 1 attack with your last token.

[/quote]

And is it not rational to save one's aps for other purposes when one sees that they will get sunk? Unfortunately, you take your limited experience of warring and extend it to common sense, as anyone who has been in a decent clan would attest to the fact that once does indeed run out of aps when warring against lower ranked clans.

lrnread

2) You spent 1 token on a ranked #7 clan. If you wanted to depleted another clan's APs to make them an easy target wouldn't it have been better to spend ALL your tokens against that clan instead?

You seem to have forgotten that clans get a hp buff directly proportional to the strength of the clan they rez against. By rezzing against a ranked #7 Clan, because of our lower HP buff, we get less time spent fighting against them, and less exp gained from attacking/defending against them as a result.

3) You've been doing this "war of attrition" vs TWAT for DAYS and you expect us to believe you miscalculated their APs EVERYTIME?

Good suggestion. Perhaps you could set up a game mechanic to tell us how many aps our opponent has. Way to ruin the game more than you already have, LL. Again, the burden of proof is on Tyler to show that this was the result of collusion, and not incompetence on the part of TVVAT2's CMs. Even then, the charge of incompetence is debatable, as the extra tokens and exp gained from defending makes the use of each token a Xanatos gambit of sorts, as the weaker clan still gains no matter the outcome.

Liar pants on fire.

(see again: burden of proof, begging the question)

[Kirisame Marisa]

And as long as better EXP can be gained from rezzing against a top clan as opposed to rezzing against, say, Clan X, any perceived hypocrisy on my part can only be due to your failure to engage my argument properly.

Multiple attacks on Clan X vs. ZERO attacks on TWAT. Which one gives better EXP?

You didn't get better EXP = your argument invalid = you're a total fucking liar.

a)Multiple attacks on Clan X = EXP gained from Aps spent attacking+ Exp gained from defending part time(disregarding level and strength of attackers, less as a few seconds taken off defending time attacking)

b)Zero attacks on TVVAT= 0 Exp gained from attacking+ Exp gained from defending full time (more than exp gained from defending part time)

but a) involves spending at least 10 ap and b) involves spending x amount of aps, where x tends to zero

Ap efficiency is obtained by dividing exp gained by the ap cost.

The ap efficiency of b) is obtained by dividing exp gained against x. As x tends towards 0, the ap efficiency approaches infinity.

As such, rezzing against TVVAT and not attacking is infinitely more ap efficient than rezzing against clan x and attacking.

The aps saved can then be used by our members to do whatever the f**k they want (usually to gain exp from sources more ap efficient than warring i.e hunting, but that's irrelevant to this argument). We're not fascists who like to control every aspect of our clan, unlike some, and that extends to Clan Masters, both bona fide and in name only.

We get better EXP efficiency = your counter argument is invalid= Have a nice day LL :)

[Kirisame Marisa]

Ok. so let me see if I got this right, correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you for the invitation, for there is indeed a lot of correction to be done.

1.)You rezzed 4 times on a clan that has ocho players, and expected them to run out of AP? 100 Ap (5 ocho) is 1 mil damage minimum for most players in that clan. so if you have 5 mil hp, 25 ocho is enough for 1 player to sink your fort alone.

Some of them do deal less than 100k exp per run. You'll be surprised by how few of them actually ocho. Also, we have ocho players in our clan too. Also, 100 APs is a significant amount proportion of the AP meter, which is much smaller relative to BS players'. From experience, many players stop attacking once their AP meters get depleted, and spending 25 ocho just to get a clan sink is pretty ocho inefficient, and top clans do not usually accept imbeciles into their ranks

2.) You didn't attack the fort because they were still attacking you and you could not win. This i can understand, save the AP for something useful... With 3-4 active non ocho players, your levels could not possibly be high enough to encounter attackers as defenders at a fixed rate. and if you were winning as defenders, ocho players would stop attacking and save their hard paid for AP. So the def exp would decrease with each token, as the attackers already know if they can pass you or not.

I am glad to see that you managed to understand the benefits of using up tokens merely to defend, a concept someone else in this thread seems painfully unable to grasp. Some of us in the clan actually do ocho, or rather, did, before this tragic misunderstanding made us question our support for this company. Some of us actually have reached moderately high levels, (the 3-4 active members actually) Also, while our defenders do get less exp per minute as time passes and tokens get spent, the net exp returned is still the same as long as attackers attack our defenders, which they do continue to do, as the evidenced by the sinking of our clan.

3.) If you were not attacking because you could not win, why on earth would you make 4 attempts in the same hour? Common sense tells you that the longer you wait the more people leave CW to go do other things. No one likes to FW.

Because most defenders can defend offline. Also, FW can actually be a fun time of fellowship and camaraderie among members. Not much FW actually happens when your clan is down though.

Thank you for your question. I only hope everyone can be as civil as you when discussing issues like these.

[Sneaky Miggy]

Some of them do deal less than 100k exp per run. You'll be surprised by how few of them actually ocho. Also, we have ocho players in our clan too. Also, 100 APs is a significant amount proportion of the AP meter, which is much smaller relative to BS players'. From experience, many players stop attacking once their AP meters get depleted, and spending 25 ocho just to get a clan sink is pretty ocho inefficient, and top clans do not usually accept imbeciles into their ranks

I would assume that they, like I do, would have an AP bank but yes 100 is large for the tank, but cheap for the game. 100ap is 50 cents. assuming they have more then 1 attacker, they wouldn't need to ocho 500 ap or tap into their AP bank for as much. Your daily ap does not give you enough AP to achieve the amount of fort sinks they have, so ochoing AP is clearly done in TVVAT.

I am glad to see that you managed to understand the benefits of using up tokens merely to defend, a concept someone else in this thread seems painfully unable to grasp. Some of us in the clan actually do ocho, or rather, did, before this tragic misunderstanding made us question our support for this company. Some of us actually have reached moderately high levels, (the 3-4 active members actually) Also, while our defenders do get less exp per minute as time passes and tokens get spent, the net exp returned is still the same as long as attackers attack our defenders, which they do continue to do, as the evidenced by the sinking of our clan.

That is true, but if the defenders are sinking the attackers, fort damage is not being done. This simply means they had more attackers then you had defenders or that someone was leaking, and not getting very good exp, or they were sinking, and again not getting good exp... although free exp is good exp i suppose.

Because most defenders can defend offline. Also, FW can actually be a fun time of fellowship and camaraderie among members. Not much FW actually happens when your clan is down though.

I understand how fortwatch can be a good social time, but if you are planning on using tokens, you are still gathered and can socialize without burning tokens. to FW, you have to win the war.

[hon]

zzz not interested argue with this troublemaker

[Kirisame Marisa]

I would assume that they, like I do, would have an AP bank but yes 100 is large for the tank, but cheap for the game. 100ap is 50 cents. assuming they have more then 1 attacker, they wouldn't need to ocho 500 ap or tap into their AP bank for as much. Your daily ap does not give you enough AP to achieve the amount of fort sinks they have, so ochoing AP is clearly done in TVVAT.

Their higher fort sink count may also be due to another factor: more active members. In any case, as can be seen from your second question, the rate of attacks does indeed decrease, or at least, attackers are deterred from attacking, which achieves the same effect.

... free exp is good exp i suppose.

that's the point :)

I understand how fortwatch can be a good social time, but if you are planning on using tokens, you are still gathered and can socialize without burning tokens. to FW, you have to win the war.

Sorry i think i misunderstood your question in 3 when I thought that you were referring to TVVAT 2. The reason for using up as many tokens as quickly as possible is because of the faster ap regen rate in SO. We want to give the enemy as little time possible to regen aps. The purpose is to tire them out, not bore them to death.