TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 01:21

Kirisame Marisa wrote: it is rational for a CM to use the free, I emphasise, free, tokens for the gain of his clan.
Here's a shit load of NOT gaining anything for your clan:
Marina Tyler wrote:As requested:

Name Attacking Clan Status Time Lane Defender HP

Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -379,549
Arkhytirema INA Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -127,602
Arkhytirema INA Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:29 3 -NONE- -122,609
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -125,154
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -135,291
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -108,117
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -160,745
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -125,891
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -130,847
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -108,785
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -158,300
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -109,149
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -128,354
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -121,414
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -161,957
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -106,871
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 3 -NONE- -413,748
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -119,422
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:28 1 -NONE- -113,278
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -164,853
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 3 -NONE- -400,466
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -118,849
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -109,178
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 2 -NONE- -161,229
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 3 -NONE- -419,418
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:27 1 -NONE- -116,424
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -10,735
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,328
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -111,956
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -137,029
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -122,278
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -69,835
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -126,062
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -129,526
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -108,846
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,988
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -127,707
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -132,985
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -110,565
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -70,209
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 2 -NONE- -128,874
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:19 1 -NONE- -123,510
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -111,439
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -67,271
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -122,404
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -128,118
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -109,998
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -69,628
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -135,689
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -119,223
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -110,433
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -69,977
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -110,813
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -135,371
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -123,145
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -68,498
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -114,651
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 2 -NONE- -130,769
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -123,619
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 3 -NONE- -68,877
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -111,684
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -119,126
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:18 1 -NONE- -134,234
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 3 -NONE- -72,217
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 1 -NONE- -111,289
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 1 -NONE- -126,262
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 2 -NONE- -131,115
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:17 3 -NONE- -70,217
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -99,451
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -70,482
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -99,239
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -123,719
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -109,474
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 2 -NONE- -395,988
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -66,951
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -125,280
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -110,347
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 2 -NONE- -417,698
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -101,586
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -68,811
Evil DEvil TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 1 -NONE- -112,471
Stevo26 TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:12 3 -NONE- -125,101
makahai TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -114,300
Captain Abhishek TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -425,258
Yellow Monkey TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 3 -NONE- -68,942
Cluedo TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -107,284
Evil DEvil TVVAT Fort Success 14/6/2013 3:11 1 -NONE- -115,497
Gained a lot of TWAT though. Is THAT your real clan?

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 18 Jun 2013, 03:47

I had hoped that with my request to be quoted the rule our clan supposedly broke, I would have gotten at least one reply citing the rule TVVAT2 supposedly broke. Yet again, you guys disappoint me, and so, it is with a heavy heart that I report that I had to find the rule myself. Now I understand that the Sky Ocean's rules are not documented, but you guys seem eager enough to quote the penalty from the BS wiki page to show that this discussion would go nowhere, and that the Judgement of the great Tyler must be infallible, so I'm sure you won't mind my doing so. Here you go guys:


"Prohibited-Feeding
Those who are caught in violation of game play rules must be summarily punished to protect the general interests of other players.
Definition:

Any attempt to use another Battle Stations account to level up faster, such that, it is done with the intention to let the winner of the attack acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would. This will include using accounts belonging to his friends who want to help him."

Now, as can be clearly seen, for an action to be considered feeding, there must a) be a winner of the attack. b) The winner of the attack must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would. c) intent to help the winner achieve (b) must exist.

Now, so far, our arguments have been focused on c), but as can clearly be shown from the last 100 posts or so, intent is a little tricky to prove.

As such, I believe we should focus on a) and b) first.
Under current combat rules, for a defender to win an attack, all he or she has to do is to survive the attack. And for an attacker to win an attack, he or she must sink the defender. As such, until the last hit that finally sinks it, the fort is always the winner of the attack when it encounters an attacker. It would be ridiculous to accuse the attackers of feeding a clan fort, because of b) "the winner of the attack must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would". A clan fort clearly cannot gain experience points or gold from winning a defence encounter. As such, a clan can never feed or be fed.

It is now that I answer an anticipated objection to my argument. Some among you may jump to the conclusion that the sinker of the fort is being fed. To refute this, we will now refer back to b). The winner "must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would". As her bonus HP and her upgrades gives her a little more padding, TVVAT2 cannot be accused of giving her attackers a quick and easy time. The only people who could be responsible for "feeding" the sinker would be his or her fellow clan mates, as they reduced her HP for him, and I must confess that the notion that the system would punish the sinker and his fellow clan mates for attempting to sink a fort almost made me burst out in laughter

As such, TVVAT2 has not engaged in feeding behaviour, and has been disbanded unfairly.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Abe Lincoln » 18 Jun 2013, 04:07

Kirisame Marisa wrote:I had hoped that with my request to be quoted the rule our clan supposedly broke, I would have gotten at least one reply citing the rule TVVAT2 supposedly broke. Yet again, you guys disappoint me, and so, it is with a heavy heart that I report that I had to find the rule myself. Now I understand that the Sky Ocean's rules are not documented, but you guys seem eager enough to quote the penalty from the BS wiki page to show that this discussion would go nowhere, and that the Judgement of the great Tyler must be infallible, so I'm sure you won't mind my doing so. Here you go guys:


"Prohibited-Feeding
Those who are caught in violation of game play rules must be summarily punished to protect the general interests of other players.
Definition:

Any attempt to use another Battle Stations account to level up faster, such that, it is done with the intention to let the winner of the attack acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would. This will include using accounts belonging to his friends who want to help him."

Now, as can be clearly seen, for an action to be considered feeding, there must a) be a winner of the attack. b) The winner of the attack must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would. c) intent to help the winner achieve (b) must exist.

Now, so far, our arguments have been focused on c), but as can clearly be shown from the last 100 posts or so, intent is a little tricky to prove.

As such, I believe we should focus on a) and b) first.
Under current combat rules, for a defender to win an attack, all he or she has to do is to survive the attack. And for an attacker to win an attack, he or she must sink the defender. As such, until the last hit that finally sinks it, the fort is always the winner of the attack when it encounters an attacker. It would be ridiculous to accuse the attackers of feeding a clan fort, because of b) "the winner of the attack must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would". A clan fort clearly cannot gain experience points or gold from winning a defence encounter. As such, a clan can never feed or be fed.

It is now that I answer an anticipated objection to my argument. Some among you may jump to the conclusion that the sinker of the fort is being fed. To refute this, we will now refer back to b). The winner "must acquire gold and experience points more quickly and easily than he usually would". As her bonus HP and her upgrades gives her a little more padding, TVVAT2 cannot be accused of giving her attackers a quick and easy time. The only people who could be responsible for "feeding" the sinker would be his or her fellow clan mates, as they reduced her HP for him, and I must confess that the notion that the system would punish the sinker and his fellow clan mates for attempting to sink a fort almost made me burst out in laughter

As such, TVVAT2 has not engaged in feeding behaviour, and has been disbanded unfairly.
Congrats for quoting the definition of feeding a player. Note how feeding a clan is entirely different, and is the activity you were accused of. Once more, you show horrid flaws in logic which make it more obvious that you're just trolling the board in the hopes of preventing the real culprits from being penalized and the real discussion from being brought to the surface.

But I get the feeling you plan on starting a yet another train of thought any moment now. And it's more than likely going to sound just as ridiculous as the several you've fabricated prior.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Rainbow King » 18 Jun 2013, 04:27

tl;dr

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by hon » 18 Jun 2013, 04:30

Rainbow King wrote:tl;dr
+1

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Sneaky Miggy » 18 Jun 2013, 04:32

Kirisame Marisa wrote: My main objection to this is that it implies that R3X and Massia, (as well as Chewbacca) actually stopped defending against a level range. They most likely didn't, and probably didn't meet many attackers because they simply didn't attack as much, or they ran out of salvage kits, both of which are conditions a CM simply cannot do anything about. As such, "had no further defense encounters" is probably more appropriate than "stopped defending".
When you look at the posted logs, MASSIA was probably sunk, as no more encounters occurred. Chewbacca probably didn't encounter another attacker as the attacker he sank never attacked again. R3X however was defending against two defenders, 1 Clan X and 1 TVVAT, both of which continued attacking. R3X clearly stopped defending, unless you want to claim r3x ran out of ap and was sunk for a while until he got enough ap to salvage again la de da etc.
Kirisame Marisa wrote: However, as can be seen from the logs, attackers that met their range were clearly active. So long as the probability of them attacking was not 0, there was still the chance that our defenders could encounter attackers, perhaps the very same ones who were deterred from the start, dipping a toe in to see if their defender was still there, or if their new build was effective against them. Or they could be stragglers late for a rez, eager to spend their aps attacking. So long as there can be conceivable gain to be had from rezzing, it is rational for a CM to use the free, I emphasise, free, tokens for the gain of his clan.
Attackers were clearly active yes. Defenders were not. Again, look at the logs... it has a column for defender in which the word "none" is written almost from top to bottom.
Kirisame Marisa wrote: Actually, defending against someone one can't beat is a pretty good idea compared to attacking a clan one can't beat, because, in the context of a clan war, 0 aps are spent doing the former, while at least 10 is spent on the latter, making it infinitely more ap efficient for clan war.
Attacking a clan one cannot beat does not mean that the attacker will not pass the defender or damage the fort, which is infinitely better experience then getting sunk by a defender one cannot beat for crummy, if any, experience.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 04:36

Kirisame Marisa wrote: As such, TVVAT2 has not engaged in feeding behaviour, and has been disbanded unfairly.
You have ignored my arguments, thus you are guilty of cheating and your clan was fairly disbanded.

Kirisame Marisa wrote: I suppose your ignoring my other arguments is an indication that you accept them as valid then.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Ray Reyes » 18 Jun 2013, 06:36

in clan wars there are 2 CLANS/forts supposed to war/whack each other.. ofc our forts will not attack the other fort, its the captains that should deal damage and sink the ENEMY FORT...

with these 2 forts there are the 2 IMPORTANT roles of captains....
attacker which MAIN purpose is to deal damage and get a LUCKY fort sink....
defender which MAIN purpose is to SINK enemy attacker...

with that if attacker CANT pass the D and CANT deal damage the enemy fort, HE FAILS !
if the defender CANT sink/stopped enemy attackers, then HE FAILS !! [we call it LEAKING]

if attacker just want to sink enemy Ds and no intention dealing damage to fort, then better go to PvP.....

so ONCE you pressed the SALVAGE button, your clan SOLE purpose is to sink enemy clan...

already got bored seeing twat2 and arma rezz one after the other to FACE twat on multiple times and almost if not tatally NO SERIOUS DAMAGE dealt to twat....

if you guys CANT handle the power of twat, try rezzing to other clans, youll get more xp, lvl up faster and so on and so forth....

btw, i really LOLed on the IDEA of trying to EMPTYING the ap bank of the ocho players of twat... is like getting a snow storm in the desert..... IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.......

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 18 Jun 2013, 07:10

Abe Lincoln wrote:
Abe Lincoln wrote: Congrats for quoting the definition of feeding a player. Note how feeding a clan is entirely different, and is the activity you were accused of. Once more, you show horrid flaws in logic which make it more obvious that you're just trolling the board in the hopes of preventing the real culprits from being penalized and the real discussion from being brought to the surface.

But I get the feeling you plan on starting a yet another train of thought any moment now. And it's more than likely going to sound just as ridiculous as the several you've fabricated prior.
My next question is actually comparably simple. Can you quote me the definition and penalty of clan feeding? I can give you a little help here: you can't. This is because, as of now, and as of the date our clan has was disbanded, there are no rules against "Clan feeding". My clan was unfairly disbanded, for a rule that did not even exist.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by hon » 18 Jun 2013, 07:31

Kirisame Marisa wrote:
Abe Lincoln wrote: Congrats for quoting the definition of feeding a player. Note how feeding a clan is entirely different, and is the activity you were accused of. Once more, you show horrid flaws in logic which make it more obvious that you're just trolling the board in the hopes of preventing the real culprits from being penalized and the real discussion from being brought to the surface.

But I get the feeling you plan on starting a yet another train of thought any moment now. And it's more than likely going to sound just as ridiculous as the several you've fabricated prior.
My next question is actually comparably simple. Can you quote me the definition and penalty of clan feeding? I can give you a little help here: you can't. This is because, as of now, and as of the date our clan has was disbanded, there are no rules against "Clan feeding". My clan was unfairly disbanded, for a rule that did not even exist.
U in SIOS. Rule is make up by Tyler for keep the game fair to everyone. U been given warning but U prefer continue stupid debate. Who the stupid one now?
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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Master of Clan X » 18 Jun 2013, 07:32

Kirisame Marisa wrote:and as of the date our clan has was disbanded, there are no rules against "Clan feeding".
Finally the admission. Go back to sucking denure you cocksucker.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 18 Jun 2013, 07:34

Master of Clan X wrote:
You have ignored my arguments, thus you are guilty of cheating and your clan was fairly disbanded.
I had hoped that you would understand the implication of the new argument I presented, and have failed to see that the topic of inquiry has shifted from how, if it was so, TVVAT2, had fed TVVAT to a more fundamental question, whether TVVAT2 was doing any feeding in the first place. As the TVVAT2 fort was unable to fulfil both a) and b), which define the action of feeding under the rules at the time of writing and disbandment of the clan, our clan should be exonerated from any claims of feeding.
Last edited by Kirisame Marisa on 18 Jun 2013, 07:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 18 Jun 2013, 07:35

Master of Clan X wrote:
Finally the admission.
One cannot admit to an infringement that doesn't exist.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Kirisame Marisa » 18 Jun 2013, 07:39

hon wrote:
Kirisame Marisa wrote:
My next question is actually comparably simple. Can you quote me the definition and penalty of clan feeding? I can give you a little help here: you can't. This is because, as of now, and as of the date our clan has was disbanded, there are no rules against "Clan feeding". My clan was unfairly disbanded, for a rule that did not even exist.
U in SIOS. Rule is make up by Tyler for keep the game fair to everyone. U been given warning but U prefer continue stupid debate. Who the stupid one now?
Nice to see you back Hon. I hope you do understand that we endeavour to follow the rules as closely as possible, preferably to the letter, and as we clearly did not break any of the rules at the time of our disbandment, punishing us would be very unfair indeed.

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Re: TVVAT2 rezzing against TVVAT makes no sense

Post by Rainbow King » 18 Jun 2013, 07:55

Kirisame Marisa wrote:
Master of Clan X wrote:
Finally the admission.
One cannot admit to an infringement that doesn't exist.
Then why ask? hee hee xD

n00blet, if you feed a clan, you feed the members that are in the clan.

Read this page VERY carefully :*
http://mobileweapon.net/battlestations/ ... %20Feeding

If anything, Tyler is being TOO nice to you as they are not deleveling captains, but merely disbanded said feeding clan instead.


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